the example that i just saw (a Sustainable Traditions post on Facebook) was someone calling someone else radical, but it was very clearly in the sense that "we are radical and therefore we link to other radicals like us.
so i think you're mostly right. but in this particular case, there's a sense of guilty by association.
what i find particularly ironic about the Sustainable Traditions folks (and people akin to them in our own denomination) is that they shun the preachy, yes-men style churches that they grew up in. they want to be different and radical and cutting edge. and yet the posts on their website are preachy and most of the people commenting are just yes men. *eyeroll* will we never learn?
Meg [sorry, am confused about whether 'you' started this blog or not] yes, I understand
we dropped out of the 'cutting-edge' stream we were in, in 02
long story
but I will always credit them with the good, and love some of them, deeply
no-one is perfect
so many of them were young, [which is a trait of those who feel they are radical and cutting edge], and still learning [my reply here does not do justice, either way, to the subject...sorry am on GMT and tired]
yup, this is me. i post stuff of a more spiritual nature here for the most part. that way my contacts who aren't interested can stay a bit removed if they'd prefer.we dropped out of the 'cutting-edge' stream we were in, in 02
long storyhave you written anything on it already? what sort of "cutting-edge" was it? so many of them were young, [which is a trait of those who feel they are radical and cutting edge], and still learningi totally get this. they have good intentions and they're trying to do good things, but often i find that they want to do them in such a way that they throw away a lot of what earlier generations have learned in the name of getting away from whatever was frigid or boring or pointless and then they end up doing the same stupid things all over again that the previous generation had done.
in some ways it reminds me of the mentality of some of the teenage mothers i knew when i was teaching. they hated their mothers. they just wanted to be out on their own. then they got pregnant in order to have someone who loved them. and they totally missed the irony that their mothers had had them when they were too young, and here their offspring grew up to hate them, so why would it be any different with the current generation.
it's that arrogant "we know something that you older folks have never understood" that ticks me off. why can't they say, "here's some issues that we think have been neglected. ya'll touched on them a bit in your generation but we want to take it further and we want to involve you in the discussion."
solomon said there's nothing new under the sun. i suppose the "radical" folks will get that when they hit their 40s or so, eh? it's such a shame that youth is wasted on the young. ;-)
ok, ok. you got me. but i'm older and wiser now. let me bonk the youngins on the head a few times in their ignorance. ;-)
actually, i like the idea of what the sustainable traditions site is doing. and i'd like to help them be less ... juvenile. but i worry that they'll instead see me as being contrary. (i DO like to jump right into conversations with my thoughts, which don't always agree with everything they've said. but i try to be good and at least find one thing i like about what they've said or that i agree with.) so partly i'm frustrated that they think they're so cool and yet they're missing some huge stuff. and partly i want to be cool but coolness sometime means being pretty darn normal and so i struggle with that. (why can't i be as cool as so and so?!!) and i think partly i'm still dealing with some "radical" people in our denomination who are so rude and unfriendly that i'd really like to sock them in the nose sometimes. *sigh*
lol... the young ones probably need someone to bang their heads now and again... but yes, finding something you like in what they're saying is a really helpful tool in getting them to hear you out about the stuff you don't agree about. it's what in counselling training I learned of as the feedback sandwich - start with something positive, offer constructive criticism, then end with something positive. people respond so much better when feedback is offered this way, they don't feel so threatened and defensive. (but I expect you already know that)
as for being normal - yes, I can't do normal either :)
i like the sandwich idea. i often start in with the disagreement, then end with a positive.
the last time i agreed with another person who posted a comment that was sort of along the lines of "this is a great post" but as i wrote i realized that the rest of their comment sorta contradicted some of the post without actually saying so. i even wonder if the person realized they were being contradictory or if they thought they were agreeing.
evangelical, reformed, [gently] charismatic, mainly youngish members, although older ones at the top of what I now understand is a hierarchy [no less than Traditional churches such as Church of England/Episcopalian], but it was not a 'traditional one' [basic core beliefs were though] N.F.I. [New Frontiers International]
Yep! Christians are supposed to be loving and understanding (i.e. JESUS). I find many to be judgemental and cliquey. If you don't go to their particular church, you are going to hell. Others will only help those in need when it is somebody that goes to their own church or is in their denomination. They totally miss the point of what it means to be a Christian.
true
ReplyDeletea better, more descriptive word is needed
Tozer and past Christians [from many years ago] were described as such by others
the example that i just saw (a Sustainable Traditions post on Facebook) was someone calling someone else radical, but it was very clearly in the sense that "we are radical and therefore we link to other radicals like us.
ReplyDeleteso i think you're mostly right. but in this particular case, there's a sense of guilty by association.
what i find particularly ironic about the Sustainable Traditions folks (and people akin to them in our own denomination) is that they shun the preachy, yes-men style churches that they grew up in. they want to be different and radical and cutting edge. and yet the posts on their website are preachy and most of the people commenting are just yes men. *eyeroll* will we never learn?
Meg [sorry, am confused about whether 'you' started this blog or not]
ReplyDeleteyes, I understand
we dropped out of the 'cutting-edge' stream we were in, in 02
long story
but I will always credit them with the good, and love some of them, deeply
no-one is perfect
so many of them were young, [which is a trait of those who feel they are radical and cutting edge], and still learning
[my reply here does not do justice, either way, to the subject...sorry am on GMT and tired]
yup, this is me. i post stuff of a more spiritual nature here for the most part. that way my contacts who aren't interested can stay a bit removed if they'd prefer.we dropped out of the 'cutting-edge' stream we were in, in 02
ReplyDeletelong storyhave you written anything on it already? what sort of "cutting-edge" was it? so many of them were young, [which is a trait of those who feel they are radical and cutting edge], and still learningi totally get this. they have good intentions and they're trying to do good things, but often i find that they want to do them in such a way that they throw away a lot of what earlier generations have learned in the name of getting away from whatever was frigid or boring or pointless and then they end up doing the same stupid things all over again that the previous generation had done.
in some ways it reminds me of the mentality of some of the teenage mothers i knew when i was teaching. they hated their mothers. they just wanted to be out on their own. then they got pregnant in order to have someone who loved them. and they totally missed the irony that their mothers had had them when they were too young, and here their offspring grew up to hate them, so why would it be any different with the current generation.
it's that arrogant "we know something that you older folks have never understood" that ticks me off. why can't they say, "here's some issues that we think have been neglected. ya'll touched on them a bit in your generation but we want to take it further and we want to involve you in the discussion."
solomon said there's nothing new under the sun. i suppose the "radical" folks will get that when they hit their 40s or so, eh? it's such a shame that youth is wasted on the young. ;-)
yes... I'm sure we all were at some point young enough to think we know everything...
ReplyDeletelol!
ReplyDeleteok, ok. you got me. but i'm older and wiser now. let me bonk the youngins on the head a few times in their ignorance. ;-)
actually, i like the idea of what the sustainable traditions site is doing. and i'd like to help them be less ... juvenile. but i worry that they'll instead see me as being contrary. (i DO like to jump right into conversations with my thoughts, which don't always agree with everything they've said. but i try to be good and at least find one thing i like about what they've said or that i agree with.) so partly i'm frustrated that they think they're so cool and yet they're missing some huge stuff. and partly i want to be cool but coolness sometime means being pretty darn normal and so i struggle with that. (why can't i be as cool as so and so?!!) and i think partly i'm still dealing with some "radical" people in our denomination who are so rude and unfriendly that i'd really like to sock them in the nose sometimes. *sigh*
lol... the young ones probably need someone to bang their heads now and again... but yes, finding something you like in what they're saying is a really helpful tool in getting them to hear you out about the stuff you don't agree about. it's what in counselling training I learned of as the feedback sandwich - start with something positive, offer constructive criticism, then end with something positive. people respond so much better when feedback is offered this way, they don't feel so threatened and defensive. (but I expect you already know that)
ReplyDeleteas for being normal - yes, I can't do normal either :)
i like the sandwich idea. i often start in with the disagreement, then end with a positive.
ReplyDeletethe last time i agreed with another person who posted a comment that was sort of along the lines of "this is a great post" but as i wrote i realized that the rest of their comment sorta contradicted some of the post without actually saying so. i even wonder if the person realized they were being contradictory or if they thought they were agreeing.
ok, sandwich. gotta remember that. that's good. *hides mallet behind her back*
rofl... leave your mallet at home, you don't really need it :)
ReplyDeletebut it would be so fuuuuun. *sniffle*
ReplyDeleteyes, I have somewhere...may need to root around
ReplyDeleteevangelical, reformed, [gently] charismatic, mainly youngish members, although older ones at the top of what I now understand is a hierarchy [no less than Traditional churches such as Church of England/Episcopalian], but it was not a 'traditional one' [basic core beliefs were though]
N.F.I. [New Frontiers International]
Yep! Christians are supposed to be loving and understanding (i.e. JESUS). I find many to be judgemental and cliquey. If you don't go to their particular church, you are going to hell. Others will only help those in need when it is somebody that goes to their own church or is in their denomination. They totally miss the point of what it means to be a Christian.
ReplyDelete